Pirate Congress 2022/Minutes

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Meeting Minutes
This document is a record of a meeting. Do not edit this document without contacting the relevant group first.


The raw text-chat log may be found here: Pirate_Congress_2022/Minutes/Log


Please note that all times are in AEST.

Day 1 - Saturday

Opening [10:05]

  • President Miles Whiticker opens the congress at 10:07
  • "This is the Annual General Meeting of Pirate Party Australia Inc."
  • Agenda: https://pirateparty.org.au/wiki/Pirate_Congress_2022/Agenda
    • Adoption of Standing Orders
    • Outgoing NC reports
    • Financial report
    • Constitutional amendment motions
    • Formal motions
    • Policy motions
    • Lunch from 12:30 to 13:30
  • Acknowledgement of Country.
  • Deputy Secretary Roger Whatling appointed as Remote Chair
    • The Remote Chair facilitates participation of those members connected remotely.

Adoption of Standing Orders

MOTION to amend Standing Orders
  • MOTION: amend the Standing Orders, for this Congress only, to allow considerations of all policy motions published prior to the start of Congress and to allow nominations for electable positions to be received up to the start of the relevant session.
    • Put by: Alex Jago
    • Ayes 12 (Tyrone D'Lisle, Miles Whiticker, Andrew Downing, David Kennedy, John August, Bryn Busai, Andrew Downing, Simon Gnieslaw, DanielT, Roger Whatling, Gold, Alex Jago)
    • Motion CARRIED without dissent or (voiced) abstention at 10:21
MOTION: Adopt the standing orders as amended
    • Put by: Miles Whiticker
    • CARRIED without dissent or abstention at 10:23

Reports

President's report

Miles Whiticker presents his report.

File:PPAU Presidents Address 2022.pdf

  • Huge year for the party
  • We've been part of the largest campaign the party's ever been involved in
  • Also a remarkable
  • "Empowerment is the foundation of our philosophy" - Rick Falkvinge
  • We can't let bad-faith actors continue to silence voices
  • We must empower our collective voices
  • We went into Fusion negotiations under the shadow of a reactionary government.
  • Our values always overlapped but our identities kept us apart.
  • Diversity is part of our continued value.
  • There will be and have been compromises, but Fusion's strength is our complementarity.
  • At the election we didn't have established name recognition, but we worked incredibly hard
  • Reading of Senate results (slightly down on 2019)
  • Many lower-house campaigns saw improved results
  • The biggest achievement during the election was our new campaigning
  • Pipeline of volunteers engaged over email, SMS, social media and phones
  • Conversion to physical campaigning
  • Shout out to the design team
  • Areas for improvement: state-level coordination, better planning and guidance from a national level.
  • Processes were being developed as we went, lots of experimentation.
  • This experience feeds into the Victorian State Election later this year.
  • Leapfrog process from Victoria into NSW-2023 into Qld-2024
  • Volunteers can come from around the country
  • The goal: consistently run at state level campaigns to maintain
  • Internationally we've seen the Russian invasion of Ukraine, which stokes fear of a broader war
  • EU states' decarbonisation now critical to reduce dependence on Russia
  • Nuclear power will remain critical, for example
  • We're already on this issue; we ran a livestream with EU Pirates in
  • EU Pirates continue to lead on transparency and privacy
  • COVID continues to be an issue in Australia
  • Even supporters of restrictions are tired of them
  • The Pirate position of COVID policy is complicated

Secretary's Report [10:37]

Alex Jago reads his report.

File:Secretary-report-2022.pdf

  • Miles comments: We'll need to start setting up state-based branches, likely with integrated cross-Fusion membership
    • We'll need people to step up to run the state-level organisations, preferably not national-level organisers already wearing multiple hats

10 minute break [10:47]

  • MOTION: adjourn for a 10 minute break
    • Carried without dissent, resuming at 11:00


Reports cont'd [11:00]

Financial Report [11:00]

John August presents the Treasurer's Report.

File:Treasurers-report-2022.pdf

Commentary:

  • Primary expenditure this financial year was candidate nomination fees, $10,000.
    • Candidates generally paid for their own material but we covered their nomination fees, $2000.
    • Donations to candidates via Fusion.
  • Also money spent on IT and social media advertising.
  • We've ended the election period with about $1700 in the bank.
  • To support another election campaign soon we will need to do a lot of fundraising.
  • Good to run candidates, the question is how many and how much we can support them.
    • In other words, we were a little over-stretched on candidates this election.
    • In addition to stumping up the $2000 nomination fee we should be able to spend $1000 on each candidate's promotion

Miles comments on fundraising: traditionally we ran a party-level crowdfund in the lead up to the election, this year we ran per-candidate fundraisers. More active (especially on social media) candidates did much better. Ask for more money and you can often get it.

Discussion on mandatory membership fees

  • "PPAU chooses to err on the side of inclusivity"
  • Thus our membership fee is pay-what-you-can
  • milspec: a suggested amount would be good
  • Alex: important to keep in mind that tax-deductible donations to the party are only possible via Fusion.
  • Adam Woodings: "How is Fusion's budget doled out to the branches?"
    • John: there wasn't a lot of money going from Fusion to the branches, more the other way around (Fusion startup/overhead costs)
    • Roger (Fusion prez): process for this is still being worked out.
    • Priority is to set up a donation flow from Fusion so that people can donate tax-deductibly

In closing, congratulations to John on his lower house candidacy.

Policy Development Officer's report

Andrew Downing (PDO) presents his report.

  • At the start of the year, people expressed interest in developing a great range of topics
  • Then Fusion happened! My time has been spent in Fusion level policy working groups, rationalising the different positions we all had.
  • This work lead to a set of consensus policies that Fusion took to the election.
  • I also spent time on the Fusion Constitutional working group to define the federated model which allows groups like PPAU to retain our identity within Fusion.
  • Having said that, we do have a few things that made to Congress, both now and in November last year.
    • Sovereign Wealth Fund in November, Capital Gains Tax today.
  • I will not be re-contesting PDO so I strongly encourage people to nominate.
    • It's a challenging and interesting role... and a bit tedious at times, corralling people and achieving consensus and nailing down practicalities.

Miles thanks Andrew for his service both this year and in the many previous years.

  • "It's not necessary for policies to go through the Policy Development Committee, but it helps."
    • PDC members also tapped to write other text.
  • Pirates have a broad set of interests, so it's rare that we would choose not to have a policy on something.
  • The role of the PDO is to turn the debates into a policy we can take to the election.
  • Andrew: "The vast majority of policy we take to Congress is adopted with over 90% support, because we've already come to consensus on it."

International Relations report [11:30]

Jay Stephens, International Relations chair, presents his report.

  • Jay has been on Intl Rel since 2021 after a polite strong-arming
  • First goal: refresh the terms of reference
  • Pursued contact with Pirate Parties International and European Pirates
  • Reported back to National Council on what would be involved with re-joining PPI
    • Sat in on PPI events
    • They've modernised a lot since 2015
  • Collaboration with the German energy working group was very fruitful
    • Very knowledgeable, want to make themselves a resource for Pirates worldwide
  • Chilean Pirates are now launching a policy collation/coordination initiative
  • The German energy working group
  • Next steps:
    • revive the committee (not just Jay)
    • take international knowledge to feed into our policy
    • Remind international Pirates that APAC exists
  • Miles: APAC is very important; just look at China as an example of an authoritarian surveillance state. Our international relations have always been important, no less so with the Czech success and the US Pirates gaining momentum.
  • Maus: what about a policy position on Australia's relationship with the US?
    • Miles: good point! The US is also a surveillance state and in many ways reactionary (see their recent abortion backslide).
    • Jay: as Pirates, on issues like abortion, society's walking into a trap where anti-abortion activists have wrapped their control in a language of freedom. As left-libertarians we can and must push back there.
  • zach__: "what are the benefits and obligations of [joining] PPI?"
    • Miles: there's a small member fee. If we seriously considered applying we'd have a more detailed conversation. There's a general assembly of PPI every year. Anyone interested in observing PPI meetings already can. I have a lot of respect for their chair Bailey Lamont.
    • Jay: there's a soft benefit there in terms of drawing on international support for ideas and legitimacy. We're Pirates, drawn from the internet. Borders aren't our thing.
    • Miles: for example, not that long ago we did a very successful livestream with three Pirate MEPs.
    • Jay: and that's a perfect example. We don't have anyone elected but there on our stream we have three MEPs in important roles!
    • Miles: In the past we've benefited from people voting for us for a laugh based on the name. Moving forward we go away from that.
  • Jay: so many ways to do cross-fertilisation.

Thanks to Jay for his work through the year.

MOTIONS to accept the reports [11:50]

  • MOTION: accept the Financial Report as presented by the Treasurer.
    • Put by: Alex Jago
    • Ayes 14: Jay Stephens, Miles Whiticker, David Kennedy, Tyrone D'Lisle, Bryn Busai, JedB, DanielT, zach__, Adam Woodings, Alex Jago, Roger Whatling, Andrew Downing, milspec, Gold
    • Abstain 2: John August, maus
    • Motion CARRIED 11:55.
  • MOTION: accept the President's, Secretary's, Policy Development Officer's and International Relations Officer's reports as a block.
    • Put by: Alex Jago
    • Ayes: Tyrone D'Lisle, Miles Whiticker, Bryn Busai, JedB, David Kennedy. ROger Whatling, DanielT, Andrew Downing, milspec
    • Abstain: Alex Jago, Gold, maus, zach__, Adam Woodings

Constitutional Amendment Proposal

CAP-1

Alex Jago speaks to the motion.

  • Currently the Constitution requires use to hold a by-election to fill NC vacancies, potentially within the notice period of Congress.

Alex and Miles explain the procedure for CAPs and PMs in that

MOTION: approve CAP-1 "Casual Vacancies"

  • Put by: Alex Jago
  • Ayes 16: Tyrone D'Lisle, David Kennedy, Roger Whatling, Adam Woodings, Gold, zach__, DanielT, Bryn Busai, Andrew Downing, JedB, milspec, Alex Jago, maus, Jay Stephens, John August, Sean O'Farrell
  • Abstain 0; Nay 0.
  • Motion CARRIED 12:13.
  • CAP-1 proceeds to online ballot of all Full Members of the party.

Lunch [12:16 - 13:16]

  • Procedural MOTION: break for lunch (1 hour)
    • Put by: Miles Whiticker
    • Ayes 14: Miles Whiticker, David Kennedy, Andrew Downing,Gold, Jay Stephens, Bryn Busai, DanielT, Adam Woodings, Roger Whatling, JedB, maus, John August, Alex Jago, Simon
    • Abstain 1 (milspec)
    • Nay 1 (Tyrone D'Lisle)
    • Motion CARRIED 12:16.

Policy Motions [13:20]

PM-1 Capital Gains Tax reform

Andrew Downing, PDO, reads out the proposed new policy text and rationale.

Pirate_Congress_2022/Motions/CGT_Reform

Key points:

  • Very wealthy people can avoid tax by borrowing against appreciating assets
  • Capital gains can be achieved in several ways, some of which do not involve the owner contributing to the economy, or occur only in nominal terms.
  • This impacts how we should tax capital gains.
  • However, depreciated improvements represent a capital investment and should be treated as contributing to a value increase just as business investment

Comments and questions:

  • milspec: Love this. I'd like to go harder on gifts and inheritance but happy to leave that for another day
  • morton: this is basically just doubling CGT for most people, difficult politically
  • zach__: yes, this is a tax increase: An associated reduction in income tax would be nice, but not part of the scope of policy since that is covered elsewhere
  • AndrewD: something to note is that over the last few decades things have become much harder for young people: housing, student debt, so value is accruing in the elderly. This will be passed on as inheritances, so we don't necessarily want to get in the way of that. We also don't want to kick people out of their freshly inherited houses because they can't afford the tax bill on inheriting it. Simultaneously, we don't want to give special treatment just because it was an inheritance, so that's why the CGT basis should be "when it was purchased" even if it was inherited in between.
  • milspec: The current tax system, as unfair as it is, does reset the CGT obligation on inheritance.
  • QUESTION from DanielT: does this policy affect family trusts? Only actual assets?
    • Answer: same rules for the trust as for everyone else. We also have policies to tax trusts as companies (i.e. at the business tax rate). If we wanted a separate (and broader) policy around trusts in general, that would be a fruitful area of investigation.
  • QUESTION from Morton: What are your thoughts that removing the 50% CGT would result in mass selling of assets before the date that the increased CGT is implemented? And what measures could you take to prevent that
    • Answer: I don't think it'd quite work out like that for homeowners because of the depreciated improvements and inflation adjustment. Anyone who was hanging out to hold the house for just over a year was already flipping it, that just moves up the timeline. Long-term owners will possibly even be advantaged if inflation has contributed to more than 50% of their nominal price gain. Overall we would prefer people to switch to more productive investments anyway. Australia's asset inflation needs to be pulled to a stop for future generations to have a chance.

Andrew thanks varno (not present) for his contributions to (=and instigation of this policy.

MOTION: adopt PM-1 [13:56]

  • Motion: Adopt PM-1 Capital Gains Tax Reform as the new section 6.7 of the Economic Reform policy.
    • Put by: Andrew Downing
    • Ayes 14: Miles Whiticker, Alex Jago, Andrew Downing, David Kennedy, Gold, zach__, Bryn Busai, John August, milspec, Adam Woodings, JedB, DanielT, Roger Whatling, Morton
    • Abstain 3: maus, Deadbeat, Tyrone D'Lisle
    • Motion CARRIED at 14:01.
    • PM-1 proceeds to online ballot of all Full Members.

PM-2 Climate Change and Energy policy update

Tyrone speaks to the policy.

  • Reworded to make the language a bit more robust.
    • "I felt that we needed to take a stronger stance here, particularly on energy given the recent crisis."
    • Changed wording around scientific consensus on climate, and about the energy market.
  • More substantial is removing prohibitions on nuclear energy / reprocessing / mining
  • Also removing taxes on electric vehicles and getting to standardised charging plug
  • QUESTION from jedb: in the third paragraph, would be it better to replace "have the most known uranium" with "have very high known uranium and thorium reserves"?
    • Tyrone accepts the amendment
  • QUESTION from Gold: How long are we planning to remove taxes on EVs? I agree with all the rest of your points, but that point is a big one for me
    • Tyrone: Good question, we'd probably want to leave that generalised at the moment given we're unlikely to be enacting it in the immediate future
  • John August observes that "we had a mildly pro-nuclear policy initially, and this makes that far more strident".
    • Concern about spending "weirdness budget" on this topic - is taking this on worth it for the party? Good to stick to our principles though.
  • Tyrone: I actually don't think this is a controversial position to have. One of the reasons I came to PPAU/Fusion because we're a progressive party willing to engage in nuclear discussion. There are more people like me.
  • QUESTION from milspec: I love the carbon tax, but why remove the GST on energy?
    • Tyrone: this is actually a holdover from the existing policy! Beyond that I can't really speak to it.
    • Andrew: don't forget "replace it with a carbon price".
  • QUESTION from milspec: How do we get EV owners to contribute to the cost of road maintenance and construction?
    • Tyrone: you're correct that that's not in this policy. We should probably address that separately.
  • QUESTION from jedb: in the third reform point, what is meant by "food additives to reduce farm emissions"?
    • Tyrone: this is another holdover. There's a seaweed-derived additive for cow diets that reduces their methane emissions by a lot.
  • QUESTION from milspec: do we need to retain prohibition on uranium processing to the level of highly enriched uranium (ie. Weapons grade)?
    • Tyrone: Yes. We would still need to meet our international treaty obligations on non proliferation.
  • QUESTION from morton: Is there any preference towards the type of reactors that are used? E.G heavy vs light water? Or not really
    • Tyrone: no specific preference. We should be guided by the evidence about what's right commercially, for the site location, etc. The industry is leaning to light water small modular reactors as the option for Australia.
  • QUESTION from Adam W: do you see the role of ARPANSA (rad protection and nuclear safety agency) expanding if the prohibition is repealed, or would there need to be a dedicated regulator?
    • Tyrone: Expanding ARPANSA probably the first step. If we developed a big nuclear industry we might need a more specific agency for power stations.
    • Simply removing the prohibition doesn't necessarily mean much need for additional regulation if doing stuff isn't commercially viable.
  • AMENDMENT proposal: update point 2 to clarify that we are retaining prohibitions on weapons grade uranium processing and abiding by nuclear non proliferation
    • Tyrone agrees to the amendment.
  • QUESTION from Miles: we used to have a $2 figure which has been removed - what happened there?
    • Tyrone: the specific required figure changes anyway, so I wanted to generalise the policy without committing to something potentially incorrect.
    • Miles: agreed, though I would like to commit to a new definite figure soon.
  • QUESTION from Roger: what are the current taxes on EVs?
    • Tyrone: the big one at present is the luxury car tax. States are also looking at taxes on new EV purchases. Broadly, we should be looking to minimise the barriers on EV purchases. Long term we need to revisit how we price road use, but that's a separate policy. Happy to remove it for now.
  • QUESTION from Morton: What are thoughts on systems in other countries main cities such as London England removing road tolls for electric vehicles. 100% petrol cars are charged the full toll, while hybrid pay less for the toll
    • This is similar to removing EV taxes. Again, we want to incentivise short-term EV update, but long term there are reasons we tax vehicle usage.

Miles proposes splitting this motion into two parts: one with the nuclear bits, one without.

  • milspec proposes: remove the "Remove the GST on energy".
    • Withdrawn after Roger points out that's carried over and removing it represents a big change both to that and to Tyrone's intent.

MOTION: adopt PM-2 "Climate Change and Energy update", as amended [14:50]

  • Put by: Tyrone D'Lisle
  • Ayes 13: Morton, Miles Whiticker, Andrew Downing, Alex Jago, Adam Woodings, David Kennedy, Deadbeat, JedB, Bryn Busai, Tyrone D'Lisle, Jay Stephens, Simon, milspec
  • Abstains 2: John August, DanielT
  • Nays 1: zach__
  • Motion CARRIED 14:52
  • PM-2 proceeds to online ballot of Full Members

PM-3 Nuclear Energy - Position Statement

  • Tyrone: The point of this position statement is to expand on the reasons for including nuclear energy in PM-2 (which we just voted on).
    • (Tyrone lists various points in support of nuclear energy, that the statement covers)
  • Alex: we need to make the same amendment re. non-proliferation
  • Simon: I feel like there needs to be a specific reference to nuclear fusion
  • Tyrone accepts these amendments and proposes:
    • For these reasons, Pirate Party Australia supports the removal of prohibitions on nuclear energy (both fission and fusion), nuclear fuel fabrication and reprocessing, and uranium mining in Australia at all levels of government, while retaining prohibitions on weapons-grade processing and abiding by nuclear non-proliferation agreements.
    • Amendment incorporated.
  • QUESTION from Morton: In regards to uranium mining, how does this apply in circumstances that uranium is found in places such as rainforests that should be protected? Is this something that should be explicitly mentioned in the position statement?
    • Tyrone: I don't think we need to explicitly address it. Uranium mining would just be treated like other mining (though we do need better regulation there too).
  • COMMENT from JedB: the second paragraph sentences don't follow from each other, since the first sentence is talking about reliability, cost, and greenhouse gases, while the second sentence is talking about safety, so "for this reason" should be removed from the start of the second sentence there
    • Amendment incorporated.

MOTION: Adopt PM-3 "Nuclear Energy - Position Statement", as amended [15:03]

  • Put by: Tyrone D'Lisle
  • Ayes 14: Miles Whiticker, zach__, Adam Woodings, Simon, Deadbeat, Bryn Busai, Jay Stephens, David Kennedy, JedB, Gold, Andrew Downing, Roger Whatling, milspec, Alex Jago
  • Abstain 1: John August
  • Motion CARRIED 15:05
  • PM-3 proceeds to online ballot of Full Members

PM-4 GMOs and Precision Fermentation - Position Statement

  • Tyrone: "I've written this not so much because of AU regulatory barriers but because of those overseas"
  • With climate change and geopolitical issues, these technologies supplement existing conventional agriculture
  • We need to support their adoption/commercialisation with a consistent regulatory framework
  • PPAU could be leaders in this emerging policy space


  • PROPOSAL from JohnA: Include reference to our IP policy ban on patents on life.
    • Tyrone: "I'll have to go and have a look at that."
    • Note that the position statement would not override the existing policy text on
    • John A: note the intersection with commercialisation
  • Question from milspec: I want to see more GMO, and lab grown meat, but do we need some approval process to ensure food safety?
    • Tyrone: there are existing processes there, so I don't think we need to put that in the position statement.
  • Comment from zach__: The line "The WHO has found that GMOs are safe" is extremely broad, as if ALL GMOs are safe, when its entirely plausible that some aren't.
    • JedB concurs: I'm inclined to think that blanket claims that "GMO's a safe" are about as silly as blanket claims that they are dangerous.
  • Simon: I think it should be reiterate that it is subject to existing safety regulations.
  • Adam W: Not just food safety, but potential environmental impact from flora that can out compete natives if released.
  • Simon proposes adding "GMOs are already subject to Australian and International standards and regulations to ensure safety".
    • Roger counter-proposes "While the WHO has found that GMOs can be safe [2], Pirate Party Australia acknowledges the continued need for regulation of safety and environmental impact.""
    • Tyrone and Simon accept the amendment as worded by Roger.
  • PROPOSAL from John:
    • Add to end of last paragraph: "This is in the context of our general ban on patents on "naturally occurring living and genetic material" as per our policy "A streamlined patent system".
    • Tyrone accepts the amendment
  • COMMENT from JedB: Stating that food production accounts for 26% of GHG emissions is probably misleading, as that includes things like packaging, transport, and refrigeration. The entire emissions from agriculture and forestry is more around 18-19%.
    • John suggests "and associated activity"
    • Miles: "Note that agriculture and food production is more than growing stuff and farting cows. Land clearing also has a big impact."
    • Tyrone: "I take the point but please note that this figure is referenced."
  • Proposed addition/modification to the last paragraph by Morton, with further tweaks by Tyrone and Alex:
    • The big challenge of a sustainable future food supply can only be achieved by pursuing a number of viable solutions that will only become effective when combined. GMOs, precision fermentation and lab grown meat are among the many possible factors that can contribute to solve the problem. Through greater use of these technologies, we can reduce the environmental impacts of food production which also ensuring we retain a high standard of living and improve food security. For these reasons, Pirate Party Australia supports removing any legislative bans on these technologies, a streamlining of regulations to support their adoption, and government investment into their research and commercialisation in Australia.
    • Amendments agreed to.

MOTION: adopt PM-4 "GMOs and Precision Fermentation - Position Statement", as amended [15:33]

  • Put by: Tyrone D'Lisle
  • Ayes 14: Tyrone D'Lisle, Adam Woodings, Morton, Miles Whiticker, John August, David Kennedy, JedB, Bryn Busai, milspec, Simon, Andrew Downing, Roger Whatling, Gold, Alex Jago
  • Abstain 1: Deadbeat
  • Nays 1: zach__
  • Motion CARIRIED 15:37
  • PM-4 proceeds to online ballot of Full Members

Closing discussion [15:38]

Miles: there are no formal motions this year, though we did initially consider some in relation to our membership mechanisms. This would entail merging our separate membership database into Fusion's NationBuilder instance. We have a number of relatively open discussion topics that we can get to tomorrow afternoon around the direction of the party. I'd be happy to go through our campaigning methodology, for example.

  • milspec: Any updates from Fusion exec?
    • Miles: the big upcoming one is the new donations and payments. We are looking for book-keeping help at an accounting level.
  • Miles: There is also much work to be done in aligning membership processes across Fusion.
  • Simon: I too would like a bit of a rundown of how the Pirates are integrated with Fusion and where we really stand as our own entity
    • Miles: We retain our independence in many ways. Campaigns are joint, of course, and we need to align to an extent.
    • Roger: some things are behind the scenes for a bit because they're resolving semi-unspoken agreements that were done in a quick and dirty fashion prior to the election. There is a massive part of Fusion that is now unaligned to any branch - 300 new members - so we need a process to engage them and support existing branches and even new branches. There is a bit of a split view on whether to really push the branch-based model (which I agree with). Ultimately, each branch is its own legal entity. But Fusion is the electoral entity, so it's Fusion that needs the attention in a lot of ways.
  • Satch: we need a mechanism for Pirate members to share their contact details with the Fusion database.
  • Adam: is the branding changing? I know there was some discussion.
    • Roger: some of that will depend on how the values process shakes out. "Fusion" and its branding were chosen very quickly. We'll figure this out in the next 12 months. If we change, it will be something long-standing.
    • Alex: the more you change, the less you can re-use
    • Dave: I got a lot of people asking if we were all about nuclear...
    • Roger: even the anti-fission people in Fusion are still OK with fusion.

Miles: Our policies change year on year, our values change much more slowly. So let's hold informal discussions overnight. What does it mean to be a Pirate - now in the context of Fusion?

  • zach__: With common policies in Fusion, would PPAU narrow its policy focus?
    • Miles: that's definitely a possibility.

End of Day 1 [16:00]

Miles thanks everyone who's tuned in over the course of the day... and reminds people that nominations are still open with some vacant positions (Deputy President and Deputy Treasurer).

  • MOTION: adjourn until tomorrow.
    • Put by: Alex Jago
    • Carried without dissent at 16:00.

Meeting adjourned until 10am Sunday.


Day 2 - Sunday

Opening [10:05]

  • President Miles Whiticker opens Day 2 of the Congress.
  • Today begins with elections.
  • The Returning Officer for Congress this weekend is Sean O'Farrell, the continuing member of the Dispute Resolution Committee.
  • Miles notes that the International Relations Officer is presently not an electable position (just appointed) but if the committee grows in scale and influence it would be appropriate to have its officer be elected.
  • Acknowledgement of Country.

Adoption of Standing Orders

National_Congress_Standing_Orders

MOTION: allow nominations from the floor [10:13]

  • Deputy President and Deputy Treasurer had no nominations as at 10am.
  • As originally put by Miles: MOTION: amend the standing orders 2 (1) to "Nominations for electable positions may be made up until the end of National Congress"
  • Roger speaks against the motion: people going for National Council should be prepared
  • Alex puts the following amendment:
    • MOTION to AMEND the current Motion to read as follows: "Nominations for electable positions without nominations at the opening of Congress Day 2 may be made from the floor until the end of the session."
  • Bryn puts the following amendment:
    • MOTION to AMEND the current Motion to read as follows: "Nominations for electable positions may be made from the floor until the end of the Nomination Speeches section."
  • Miles accepts the amendments as follows: MOTION: Amend the standing orders 2(1) to read "Nominations for Deputy President and Deputy Treasurer may be made from the floor until the end of Nominations agenda item."
  • With this motion, people can still nominate for those positions (which don't have nominations as of 10am).
  • Ayes 10: Miles Whiticker, zach__, Bryn Busai, David Kennedy, Alex Jago, Ian Haywood, Sam, Roger Whatling, Gold, Tyrone D'Lisle
  • Nays 1: Andrew Downing
  • Motion Carried 10:27
  • Standing Orders amended.

Nominations [10:28]

Note: people nominating for multiple positions get one speaking slot.

President

Miles Whiticker

  • Miles speaks to his nomination.
    • "My focus is on campaigning, but also outreach and growth."
    • Heavily involved with Fusion, already helping out with Victoria
    • Chose to take a campaign support role for this federal election
    • Physics student, education professional, philosophy + politics
    • "We have a duty towards the future of our community and country"
    • "I'd be happy to be in a mid-level campaigning role - that's what I do with Fusion"
    • Only not a founding member by virtue of being too young to join at the time
  • zach__: "were you ever a member of any other party?"
    • Miles: no.

Secretary [10:35]

Alex Jago

  • Alex rambles to his nomination
    • (It's hard to speak and take minutes - AJ)
  • Miles: "How's your working relationship with Roger as Deputy?"
    • Alex: I think it's fine - we've had no irrevocable conflicts.
    • Alex: I am also a bus factor of one for a bunch of things, so that's something to work on for me.
  • Andrew: "How are you going at delegating"
    • "I like to think I'm improving."
  • Miles: "given you're from a tech BG and have responsibility for a lot of our tech stack, what's the first thing "
    • AJ: our member database - every organisation depends on good data about its members

Deputy Secretary [10:46]

Roger Whatling

  • Roger starts by thanking Alex
  • Roger is re-nominating for Deputy Secretary
  • Just completed his first term - mostly as a backup
    • Helping out with things here and there
  • Also heavily involved with Fusion (currently Secretary and acting President)
  • Joined PPAU at the 2019 election after becoming aware of the party
    • "platform really resonated with me"
    • Tech management background
  • Ran for election earlier this year as Queensland #2
    • First time involved in an election!
  • zach__: "Why are you nominating yourself for the deputy and not the lead position?"
    • Roger: Alex is a much better Secretary than I am! Also my time is spent in Fusion. Much Pirate tech is self-hosted and often self-built.
  • Miles: "Where do you see the future of Fusion going?"
    • Roger: "Up from here! It's a great opportunity for parties like PPAU to stay involved and advocate their specialty policies. We'll contribute as we always do."
  • Alex: "Out of all the organisational processes in PPAU, which do you most want to change?"
    • Roger: Engagement processes and how we use our member data. It's broad emails, the Discord and who shows up to meetups right now.
  • Andrew: Broader Fusion commitment to individual liberties?
    • Roger: I think we're coming to a good agreement. Other branches in Fusion have their own views on this. Some of the work we're doing now is to break this down and establish what words really mean to us. For example, the word "freedom" is a bit tainted from all those yellow billboards, but we know. It remains a core value to Fusion going forward.
  • William (Norway): What do you think is PPAU's biggest weakness is and how would you/contributed to fix this weakness in the position you are running for?
    • Roger: "mate, I'm only Dep Sec. Hard to comment on because I joined only shortly before COVID, but we have very little external engagement - taking our message out to the people. Most engagement stops at the Discord. Less of a social club and more of a really politically focussed organisation, including influencing policy in Fusion."


Treasurer [12:16]

John August

John was at an EV convention today...

  • Miles speaks about John:
    • Long term NC member
    • Stepped up to the Treasury in 2018, learning on the job
    • Run for lower and upper house federally and for local council
    • EV advocate, owns a hybrid
    • Also hosts a radio show


Councillor

Michael George [11:05]

  • Father of three, works in software dev.
  • I care about a lot of the things PPAU cares about - freedom of expression, etc
  • First time I'm getting into this, I'm willing to put in the effort where it matters
  • Michael has assisted with a bunch of the live streams prior to and during the election.
  • Miles: "How do you feel about your streaming experience, do you want to do more?"
    • Michael: "Yeah, I've done some more, that's something that absolutely would be on the table. A good option for external engagement."
  • Roger: "Apart from live streams, I know you've been a participant for a while - from what you've seen so far, what do you think your main NC contribution will be"
    • Michael: "Miscellaneous, apart from streams. Like a Renaissance man."
  • Andrew: "As a father of 7yo's, what are you thinking are the longer term political issues that need to be resolved for their futures?"
    • Michael: Inflation and housing. If people can't buy houses, that's a big problem. "You will own nothing and be happy" - no way.
  • Sean: "What are your opinions on children's or teens' privacy rights re. their parents?""
    • Michael: "That's really complicated. I have to struggle with that thought on a deep emotional level so many times. I know how much the internet is a terrible place. But also kids need to be free. TL;DR: you need to give your kids self esteem and the confidence to handle arseholes - and some level of boundary."
    • "I try to pay attention to what's happening on the net, the online zeitgeist. It's interesting in a terrifying way. There's not much that can be done other than by individuals for themselves."
  • Sean: Perhaps a more narrow version of that, should minors' chats with school friends be monitored by their parents?
    • Michael: There's no difference between a friend talking to their friend in chat and in person, except that a parent could later read the chat log. It's an invasion of privacy IMO. If you want to find out more about your child, talk to them! Granted this is a theoretical opinion still, my oldest kids are only 7.
    • David K: up to a point of maturity it makes some sense as kids won't always realise if they're being groomed or radicalised somehow.

Tyrone D'Lisle [11:20]

  • Nominating both for Councillor and for PDO, mostly speaking to PDO.
    • "I was made aware by the outgoing PDO that PDO isn't on NC, but there's a good harmonisation there so I also nominated for NC."
  • "Always been a policy nerd, loved learning how the world works"
  • Previous member of the Greens, involved in policy working groups there.
    • Authored or brought together about a dozen policies with them.
    • Not just working with members but also community stakeholders
    • Evidence-based, but also you need values to guide how you interpret that evidence
  • I'd like to help PPAU rejuvenate its positions and also have a strong policy impact within Fusion - we have a lot to offer there
  • Joined PPAU at the start of this year - Pirates fit my values the best
    • Helped out with Fusion bringing campaign and policy skills - that was great
  • Looking to engage with both members and the public on policy, and to bring campaigning experience.
  • Andrew: What policy areas did you write about for the Greens?
    • Tyrone: Urban planning & development, Youth & child safety, some environmental policies... it's been a while.
      • Some of these were quite contentious, like the corporal punishment exemption currently in the Qld criminal code
  • zach__: Why did you leave the Greens?
    • Tyrone: There was an increasing amount of centralisation (also some bullying). Policy is more political than people think?
    • It wasn't the nuclear thing either, I came to that after leaving them.
  • zach__: How will you fit with Pirates who don't share Greens values?
    • Tyrone: it's definitely been an interesting journey seeing different values already. I try to be open-minded. I want to work with people - if they have a position that's different to mine, we can discuss it and explain why we feel the way we do. I've always been a social libertarian - bringing everyone up to a level of freedom that people feel confident to engage.
  • Personally I disagree with Fusion's "cease all fossil extraction ASAP" policy. Electricity is only a small fraction of overall energy and the rest is all fossil fuels. But we need to have our own house in order first.
  • Roger: "Given Fusion doesn't have its own policy development processes, what are your plans?"
    • Tyrone: I'll take input from the NC and the rest of Fusion. This election has indicated that a growing segment of the AU public want to see fleshed out policy. Parties who can say "we've really thought about this" will see benefits.

Adam Woodings [11:41]

  • Adam speaks to his nomination.
    • Ran as WA #2 Senate candidate at the election, looking to expand knowledge and experience.
    • Councillor's a generalist role - I want to help out where I can.
    • My main concern is how the digital privacy space is devolving. I have a lot of concerns about the wholesale collection and sale of personal data. There's no protections in place for people who want anonymity; you walk into a store and there's facial recognition.
    • I also have concerns around the copyright and IP spaces - just look at how Disney leans on lawmakers.
    • A real passion point for me as well is also drug reform - moving to a harm minimisation approach. It's ludicrous; there's a lot of evidence that booze is more harmful than ganja. This in turn fixes a lot of issues around our justice system by taking non-violent offenders out of jails.
  • Tyrone: Are you pro-WAxit?
    • Adam: I'm actually a Territorian born and bred. So if it's WAxit, only if we take the NT too.
  • Gold: Given what you said about alcohol and drugs, what's your opinion on the recent lifting of alcohol free zones in the NT?
    • Adam: The Intervention in the NT was a whole different issue. I'd love to see the part of the constitution removed that allows Canberra to just shit all over the NT's laws. Alcohol's a tricky one. If the community demands it, who are we to say they can't? It should be a local government power.
    • Sean O. "Should these "dry zone" rules implemented by local government apply in both public and private spaces as they do now, or should they be limited in some way to mitigate restrictions upon the non-consenting within those communities?"
    • Adam: If the majority - a solid majority - demanded it, then personally I think it's one of those situations where the majority ruled. A lot of the concern around dry communities isn't in the pubs or clubs, but at home. It's a balancing act. Again, it's not something I'd personally want to see - my username is "Gimmeadrink". It's another place where harm minimisation needs to be tried first.
    • Sean O. Powers of local govt vis-a-vis import prohibitions?
    • Adam: I'd like to see expanded powers of local government - direct democracy probably means shifting power down. But there's also the balancing act around protecting people from self-interested Councils, like with property development. Our local tip is controlled by another council well away from the tip, and the fees are high so people dump illegally. Local governments and councils need to enact the will of their community - and they need oversight to make sure that happens.
    • Adam: Import prohibitions are a last ditch effort that councils should be able to go to as that last resort.
  • Sean O. Reverse New Zexit?
    • "What is this, the 1860s?"
  • Regarding fossil fuels - moving away is obviously required. There are ways to do that without giving up the economic benefits of mining (hot topic for WA). Coal to lithium for example - we could spark some local manufacturing too.
  • milspec: What kind of events could we run in WA to get more engagement amongst members?
    • Adam: we need to start doing meetups - it is tricky in WA where we are quite dispersed. I'd also like to see more Discord engagement (not WA specific), things like Jackbox streams.
  • AlexJ: is 9pm AEST a good meeting time?
    • Adam: That's seven in the west, soon to be six. It's tricky for me (young kids). Earlier is also harder because it's the end of the workday.
  • jedb [IRC]: should we consider policy to do away with daylight savings to simplify the timezones a bit?
    • Adam: Yes, daylight savings is a curse, invented by the Germans in WWI to save coal. If you want more sunlight, shift your workday. This would also have peak-hour-spreading transport benefits.

David Kennedy [12:03]

  • David speaks to his nomination.
    • Been around since very early on, pre-registration member.
    • Helping out on the NC for the last 3 years now or so.
    • I'm a full stack .NET dev
    • Originally attracted to the Pirates in terms of real democracy and the civil/digital liberties core
    • my views have shifted a little and now I really care about secular humanism
    • SA #2 Senate candidate this year
  • Miles: how do you feel about the state of regulation right now?
    • Dave: I think it's important to reform patent and copyright law - maintaining the incentives without enabling anticompetitive behaviour
    • Dave: I'm also very concerned about the modern surveillance economy. There needs to be better transparency about what's collected. Users should be able to know exactly what's being and been collected about them.
  • Alex: as a returning Councillor, would you consider going for one of the open Deputy positions?
    • Dave: I do have some health issues, looking at some invasive surgery coming up, so I'm reluctant to take on that responsibility before I see the next prognosis.
  • Sean O; You state that you support "the bulk" of our policy as it currently stands, what policies in particular do you not support?
    • Dave: TBH I copy-pasted that from my previous nominations! I'm happy to back all of it; it is constantly evolving. Nothing stands out now, even if there are things I'd tweak.
  • Tyrone: Is there anything that you hoped to achieve in the previous NC that you weren't able to?
    • Dave: Yes - it's always they case that I would've liked to have had a bit more time to contribute a bit more. After September I'll finish my current contract so I may have some time then.
  • Dave: I'd consider my work with Jay a big success, culminating in the energy livestream. We are very well positioned in Australia for wind and solar energy - not so much in Central Europe.

Dispute Resolution committee [12:19]

Both DRC candidates are incumbents; elected not to speak today.

Policy Development Officer

Tyrone D'Lisle

See nomination speech and Q&A under Councillor.

Final call for nominations [12:21]

None received.

Election [12:22]

  • Sean O'Farrell, continuing member of the Dispute Resolution Committee, is the Returning Officer.
  • Adam Woodings WITHDRAWS from Councillor nomination at 12:28. There are now three candidates for three positions.
  • The RETURNING OFFICER assumes the CHAIR at 12:30.
  • Miles Whiticker, standing unopposed for President, is declared the winner. Miles accepts this position [12:32].
  • Alex Jago, standing unopposed for Secretary, is declared the winner. Alex accepts this position [12:32].
  • Roger Whatling, standing unopposed for Deputy Secretary, is declared the winner. Roger accepts this position [12:33].
  • John August, standing unopposed for Treasurer, is declared the winner. John accepts this position [12:36].
  • David Kennedy, standing as one of three candidates for three Councillor positions, is declared a winner. David accepts this position [12:39].
  • Tyrone D'Lisle, standing as one of three candidates for three Councillor positions, is declared a winner. Tyrone accepts this position [12:39].
  • Michael George, standing as one of three candidates for three Councillor positions, is declared a winner. Michael accepts this position [12:43].
  • Bryn Busai, standing as one of two candidates for two Dispute Resolution Committee positions, is declared a winner. Bryn accepts this position [12:41].
  • Liam Pomfret, standing as one of two candidates for two Dispute Resolution Committee positions, is declared a winner. By a broad interpretation of 10.1(2) and 10.1(8)(b), Liam has 7 days to accept this position.
    • Liam accepts the position at 12:48.
  • The RETURNING OFFICER exits the CHAIR.

Lunch [12:45]

  • MOTION: break for lunch for one hour.
    • Put by: Miles Whiticker
    • Ayes 17: Tyrone DL, Miles W, Michael G, zach__, Jay S, Gold, David K, Adam W, Sean O, Roger W, Bryn B, Sam, Andrew D, Alex J, Deadbeat, milspec, Ian Haywood
    • Abstain 1: Jed B
    • Motion CARRIED.

PDO Election [13:49]

  • The RETURNING OFFICER temporarily assumes the CHAIR.
  • Tyrone D'Lisle, standing unopposed for Policy Development Officer, is declared the winner. Tyrone accepts this position [13:50].
  • The RETURNING OFFICER exits the Chair.

Location of Next National Congress

  • Miles: for the last two years it's been online. With experience we've gotten better and better at it. We can't run a complicated vote during Congress but that's about it.
  • Miles proposes the 2023 Annual National Congress also be held online.

MOTION: that Pirate Party Australia National Congress 2023 be held online

  • Put by: Miles Whiticker
  • Ayes 14: Miles W, Alex J, zach__, Adam W, David K, Simon, Roger W, Bryn B, Sean O, Tyron DL, Deadbeat, DanielT, milspec, Jay S
  • Abstain: Jed B
  • Motion CARRIED 13:57

Strategy and Party Improvement

Stimulus Questions

General

1. What area(s) of the party have we succeeded in? 2. What area(s) of the party have we failed or underperformed? 3. What areas of the party would you like to learn more about? 4. Why do you identify with the Pirates? 5. What area of the policy are you most interested in? Do you think it could be improved?

Outlook

1. Where do we want to be next year? 2. Where do we want to be in 5 years time?

Growth

1. What do you think is the appeal of the Pirates to wider Australia? 2. Do you have friends/family who might be interested in supporting Pirate politics? 3. What is an unaddressed issue or policy which the Pirate Party hasn't talked about, and how could Pirate Politics address it?

Philosophy

1. How do we balance safety vs freedom 2. How do we balance sustainability vs industry and technology 3. The internet and communication has become increasingly corporatised and full of "walled gardens". What would we replace that with, if there was government funding for digital discussion communities?

General

  • Miles: I think we've succeeded in recent years in getting people to step up and volunteer. There's always attrition, but in the last few years we've had a stable presence among our organisers. This builds confidence.
    • Jay: IMO retention and reduced turnover is due to upper exec respecting boundaries, making areas for people like me wth time pressure to contribute
  • Sean: Regarding policy I think we could take a greater instance in justice reform.
  • Miles: Note that failure/underperformance is possibly the most important topic. Both things that are important and aren't working, but things that aren't important and aren't working.
    • zach__: This Congress isn't on the website calendar! Website could use some love.
  • Roger: I think the merger with Fusion has been a success: the members and leadership have a space to continue as part of a registered party. Props to Miles. On the other hand, our underperformance is planning - we do so much last minute that only the active/responsive people can be involved with.
    • I'd like to see the National Council be planning ahead for these further ahead of the minimum notice period.
  • Tyrone (re. identity, appeal): During the election campaign I raised this but it's time now. People by into a narrative just as much as your actions. Where you came from, where you want to go. As someone who's come into the Pirate Party there's much less of an initiation into the culture and what it means to be a Pirate. We should work to build that narrative including our international ties.
    • Miles: that's a good point: Some of us go back to the BBS days, some of us go back to... the Discord days.
  • Simon: I think that being with Fusion is a great outlet for the party to get our ideas out through a separate brand, one which helps cut through to voters who don't want to feel obligated to go through complex policy documents or can't look past the Pirate name, or perhaps the other member parties value-add to our policies such as being more environmentally focused, but at the same time we get to retain all our policies and identity for those who are into all that.
  • milspec:
    • on identity: I like the economic policies - embracing market based mechanisms while being concerned for the environment and poverty
    • on policy: I'm the most interested in the economic policies. I'm very aligned, but there might be some tweaks that we can discuss more about as a team and build consensus on (eg. stronger position on LVT, UBI vs NIT, zoning changes)
  • morton:
    • learning more: Some members have pointed out some points of disagreement with fusion policies. I would like to learn more about where pirate party and fusion policies differ.
      • Miles: there's a few, nuclear, basic income approach; health and education are yet to be unified on the details.
    • identity: After looking more deeply into politics over the 2022 election runup, I found the pirate party policy was the one I agreed with most points with many issues. In particular, moving from Greens to pirates for myself due to less focus on social issues and more focus on issues that will keep humanity alive in the next century.
    • policy improvement: Privacy Policy: I believe it would be worth adding policy about the storage of data, in relation to what kind of data companies can store, and reasons why they can store it. Environment Policy: I believe we could have specific policy regarding no-fishing zones to prevent overfishing.
  • On identity and policy with regard to Fusion
    • Miles: after the election we've focused on identifying values and principles held by each constituent branch of Fusion and by Fusion overall
    • Roger: yes, our pre-election policy working group was meant to pull together all existing branch policy and identify/resolve key disagreements. In terms of development of new policy at a Fusion level, there are no established process - we need to sort that out, and sort out what we can do when we can't come to agreement between branches. I expect we'll always have high-level goals and branch-level variations.
    • Often policy topics involve agreement that a problem exists but disagreement on the specifics of how to fix it.
    • Tyrone: I believe that letting branches hold conflicting policy is beneficial. In e.g. the major party's factions it's all back-room. We can be transparent about our differences. It is hard to draw the lines though.
    • Roger: it's important to realise that a candidate might hold a particular view... and to get it implemented requires negotiation with potentially every other MP.
    • Jed B: These issues with contentious policies and negotiation means that it is even more important to be very clear about party values and what they mean.
    • Jay S: Agree let's explicitly try to structure ourselves to avoid the constituent parties turning into backroom influence gangs
      • Miles: yes - and compare how Labor and Liberal do factions. In Labor they have clear agreements on who gets to run for which seats, etc., and incredibly tight party discipline. But it's better than the Libs where they knife each other in the back every few years and the factions don't exist until they do.
  • Ian H: is there a policy to make publicly funded universities release their content (lectures, research)?
    • Miles: I think that's a great idea! Universities are pushed towards a profit model. This is a combination of federal government funding issues and the growing reliance on international students. I believe knowledge, information and culture should be free.
  • Sam:
    • On success, I joined the party at the start of the year and the detailed policy platform with evidence references stood out massively which helped it to differentiate from non Labor/Liberal/Greens parties.
    • On failure, I think we could improve on social media engagement with the party outside of discord. Particularly now since more focus will be directed to Fusion since they are the registered party competing in elections.
  • zach__: Currently, the policies are passed by majority vote, and thus the party follows the common set of policies supported by its members, which is a stark distinction from following the core narrow pirate policies. How do we reconcile this?
    • Miles: most of the parties in Fusion started with a narrow policy set which expanded over time, so there's an argument to trim back
    • Roger: All of the Fusion parties have interests well beyond their core policies. It might be a danger to Fusion to let
    • Sam: I disagree - a broad policy set is legitimising.
  • Miles: on identity, I find it interesting how people come and go between the Pirates and everyone from the Greens to the Liberal Democrats. Pirate politics is often described as syncretic, and I think this broadness of overlap gives us a lot of upside. E.G. the idea of UBI as replacing the need for a minimum wage - UBI is pretty left wing but getting rid of the minimum wage isn't.

Outlook

  • Miles: With the Victorian election campaign we're looking to get state registered, which means establishing state structures. This time next year we'll have done and learned all we can with the VIC and NSW state elections. And hopefully Fusion overall will have seen a lot of growth with those campaigns, some of those new members will come to us.
    • We must find a place for new people with a clear and supportive culture, mature organisers, and better Fusion integration.
  • Tyrone:
    • next year we should have 2x membership, more fleshed out policy platform, dominant branch in Fusion.
    • in 5 years we should have our first MP or Councillor elected
    • Miles: even if we lose, we still put our policies and platform forward.
  • Jay: From an IR perspective, in 5 years time...
    • regular participation in PPI and other world orgs at a formal level
    • significantly broader and deeper policy platform in part from collaboration with sibling parties
    • Tyrone: For sure
    • Miles: there are Pirates everywhere, so we have exposure to Catalonia, Ukraine, Russia... there's 1001 fascinating policy positions to adopt if we keep our ears open
  • Sunny K: in 5 years we should be cracking 4%. TBH we're a federal party, most of our policy platform is federal.
  • Tyrone: we should probably create sub-branches responsible for specific things; e.g. in the Greens there are local branches. It gives people a real sense of ownership over the community.
    • Miles: yep, going through these state campaigns and organising will help
    • Alex: I think local groups would more likely be Fusion wide

Growth

  • Tyrone: a couple of weeks ago I attended an event held by Max Chandler-Mather, the new MP for Griffith. A comment he made is that people had felt turned off by the Greens - even if they voted for them - because they felt a strong pressure to conform with the vibe. So I think we need to be careful to maintain openness. It can be really intimidating for non-political people to start engaging.
    • Miles: this is the other side of having a really strong narrative. So we need to make sure to maintain an open and inclusive culture.
  • Sunny K: I've seen people with a lot of reach start to say "Pirate" a lot more now than earlier, complete with spitballing policies which look a lot like ours (cultural policies relating to archival / DRM for example). I think there is space to create relationships here.
  • zach__: Pirates could issue more position statements regarding current situations. Keep relevant and advertise our values at the same time
    • Alex: probably we'd call that a press release but yes
    • Tyrone: yep, we need spokespeople between elections
    • Miles: sometimes we'll start writing a press release and it just runs out of steam
    • Tyrone: shadow cabinet of spokespeople
    • Miles: yep, we tried something like this for Fusion. European Pirates do this too, as part of their coalition.
    • David: and sometimes things change rapidly and a PR becomes irrelevant
  • Miles: what's important is not so much what content we're generating as that we're continually generating it. There's also a strong need to target comms to audience.
  • Gold: Any chance to borrow from the eu pirate parties for PRs regarding international matters?
    • Miles: yep, we already do!
  • Sunny K: One challenging thing I found earlier is:
      • knowing what's the most important thing I have to work on, an
      • What process I'm expected to follow.
    • Miles: good point: those of us who've been around a long time forget what it's like to be new. My advice is "what you're passionate about". We can generally get the baseline necessities done. But to thrive, I don't want to be party dictator.
  • Morton:
    • 'friends/family: My wife still supports greens mainly due due to their policies in regards to the treatment and policies towards first nations people, treatment of refugees and humanitarian aid to foreign counties. She used to work in foreign aid and has seen poor policy/enactment of aid and treatment of these 3 parties.
  • zach__: What about a volunteer board for tasks available and who to contact to help coordinate? Good for new members.
  • Tyrone: we need an onboarding process. That Getting Involved page is a start. There's two things that people really want to do when they join. Policy, and getting involved in activism. If you have a person that talks to them (in the Greens there's the state membership officer and also the local branch convenor, so two) then that's important. If you don't capture people at their peak enthusiasm honeymoon period, that falls away.
    • Miles: yeah, directing people at a public issue tracker / taskboard could actually be quite good
    • Miles: another thing is about taking our tech experience and making things more user friendly. Switching to Discord meant people were way more active on chat. We also need to make direct democracy accessible.
  • Miles: I also highly encourage Melbourne and Sydney Pirates to start organising meetups. Pick a location, pick a time, we will help you contact members and give you a SMALL pizza budget.
    • Morton: encourage donations from attendees and you'll turn a profit
  • Roger: At a Fusion level, if you want to do something, also feel free to start doing that at a Fusion level as the Pirate rep. We just stood up committees working up all those policies like engagement and onboarding at a Fusion level, events, all this same stuff. Sending out a notification across all the rest of Fusion is pretty easy because Nationbuilder. Fusion's monthly newsletter is bare. I want to be able to say "this group's meeting here".
    • Similarly, all this Pirate focused content (press releases) can also be pushed out with minor tweaks at a Fusion level.
  • list of non-PPAU meetups
  • Miles: getting back to appeal and friends/family - how to we market ourselves to people who aren't traditional Pirates?
  • Tyrone: I think taking an Ecomodernist vibe could have some payoff. I know people in the Nationals who are looking to jump ship.
  • zach__: highlight our core privacy and evidence-based policies. That's applicable to everyone, not just techies
  • Sunny K: are we solarpunks?
    • Miles: I am, but also I want to go to space.
  • Alex: I post this every year, but most of Fusion is quite up-wing.
    • Miles: in contrast, many activists are down-wing: degrowthers for example. We can aspire to move off this planet without destroying it. I want the Star Trek future and I believe we CAN have it.
  • Morton: Have policy towards some of the social issues that the greens would generally capture people on - Humanitarian aid, treatment of refugees and aboriginals. Also potentially some words about gender equality (for both woman and men).
    • We have a policy reference to the Uluru statement.
    • Tyrone: we also don't have strong First Nations representation in the membership, so we should exercise some caution there on speaking for people.
    • Sunny K: The Statement really struck me as a document about ideas that we rally espouse.
    • Morton: sure, but how would we get a larger indigenous representation without first affirming our support for them though?
      • Gold: gotta go and ask.

Philosophy

  • Morton: Question on walled gardens, if we are using TOR as an example of the opposite, how would we balance removing censorship, but also ensuring we can still crack down on illegal activities (drug sites, weapon site and childporn for example).
    • zach__: all 3 are based in the real world ultimately.
  • David: note that all modern walled gardens are built on open tech, except for the top layer.
  • Adam: Regarding online spaces, there are issues around our current laws that need addressing first. While platforms are held to be publishers and can be held liable, and while the old media can demand money for content shared, there will be very few organisations that will want to take the risk. We need to repeal these bloody stupid legislation first.
  • Roger: Similarly, we want to set a balance of breaking apart monopolies vs jeopardising useful future tech.
  • Tyrone raises points around education (and consumer law).
  • David: it's also worth acknowledging different levels of comprehension and cognitive styles. Not everyone's the same and are happy to trade off control for ease-of-use.
  • Jed B: everyone wants their phones to Just Werk(tm), nobody wants to be constantly spied on, but since the former is obvious while the latter is hidden, the principle of "out of sight, out of mind" dominates
  • Andrew: What we could do from a government regulatory perspective, is to lay out the open, interoperable, privacy adhering etc guidelines under which a service provider could experience more favorable business terms, such as liability conditions etc.
  • Roger: it's also a bit naive: compare eco-groups that want to get to zero emissions straight away. Having a phone that just works is also a bit naive. And even with an old dumbphone you'll still be tracked by the network.
  • Morton: I have tried many times to get my family (siblings) to stop using tiktok, but its so addictive, and so many of their friends are on there that it ends up with them saying "I dont care what (x) knows about me".
    • Alex: yep, so this is the point where government steps in.
    • Tyrone: yep, if you see the risks of data harvesting as less than the benefit you get from the product. Hey, it's free. If we were to remove those business models - are there replacements? Our value as Pirates is to make sure governments care about protecting their citizen's privacy vs corporations.
  • Morton: Any conversation about privacy needs to start with "Why should I care about privacy?"
    • Roger: one starting point for me is pointing to the consequences of breaches. People say if you've done nothing wrong, what do you have to hide? My response is that privacy is the default because I should have the right to know what is happening with the information out there about me.
    • JedB: all the deplatforming that has happened over things dug up from a decade or more in the past provide great examples for why people should care
  • Tyrone: note also that political parties are actually exempt from the Privacy Act - and privacy is actually really critical for political participation too
    • Look at the recent police response to Extinction Rebellion activities in NSW - they're feeling the pointy end of the surveillance state. Suddenly things can change.
  • Alex: mass surveillance is necessarily retrospective surveillance - and things can change
    • Miles: brings up the scope creep of Australia's metadata scope creep
  • Miles: the other thing is that Facebook, Twitter, Instagram are so big, they're defacto public spaces and right-wingers (and left-wingers!) have a genuine complaint about getting kicked off.
    • That's a key question which Pirates are here to answer: how does discussion happen, how is knowledge shared?
  • Gold: what's the PPAU view on public workers needing to use free software?
    • Miles: this is actually the view of the Euro Pirates!
    • JedB: most important is that they use open formats for data and protocols, the actual software is less important.
    • Miles: there's a data science hackathon called GovHack - it's great. The things they prototype do get implemented.
    • David: in my experience, enterprise and government are happy to use open source but not to create open source.
  • Simon: In Victoria they did the same and released all the de-identified Myki data (public transport tickets) and subsequently it was re-identified.
    • Miles: that's what happens with PII if you have enough circumstantial data.
  • Morton: Sorry to go back to privacy debate while talking about this, but I think its worth mentioning that targeted advertising/data harvesting leads more and more people towards echo chambers. Such as someone who mentions their lack of trust towards vaccines will likely be recommended communities and articles around antivax (as they are very likely to read and engage) meaning that they end up only seeing things that support a warped world view, that correlates to that person that this is the correct view.
    • Alex: yep, radicalisation as user engagement
  • Tyrone: regarding security vs freedom, people want the government to step in when bad things happen to them. I had to threaten going to the e-Safety Commissioner to get someone to back off just this year. But on the other hand the eSC has some scary powers. Also, they still have defamatory content up about me.
  • Jed B: something that most people don't talk about, is that someone constantly following your online activity around, recording everything you do, all in order to more effectively shove stuff in your face you don't want to see, sounds an awful lot like cyberstalking and harrassment, and that is basically what data collection and user-targeted advertising is.

Close [16:00]

  • The CHAIR: we have concluded our nominations and elections and commended constitutional changes and policy updates to the membership for adoption. We have had some great discussion about party improvement and direction to go away with.

MOTION: close National Congress 2022

  • Put by: Miles Whiticker
  • Ayes 15: Miles W, Tyrone DL, Bryn B, Gold, David K, Adam W, Roger W, Andrew D, Jed B, Deadbeat, zach__, Morton, Alex J, Sam, milspec
  • CARRIED without dissent.
  • National Congress closed at 16:05
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